The Third Web Micro - Economies #2 - SpankChain

In today’s episode we look at SpankChain, an adult industry cryptocurrency payment system built using Ethereum.  Currently, financial intermediaries in the adult entertainment industry exploiting their position to impose arbitrary rules on content by refusing to serve participants who produce content a specific payment processor finds objectionable.

The effect of this is to persecute already marginalized groups like trans men and women and as well as severing the income of both individuals and businesses in a one hundred Billion dollar industry.

Using payment channels and a novel ethereum based tech stack, Ameen Soleimani and Janice Griffith aim to liberate the adult industry from exploitation by evil financial intermediaries. Soon there may be a place so spend ether.

This episode contains graphic descriptions of pornographic content so if that makes you feel uncomfortable you’ll want to give this one a miss.

Arthur Falls: Welcome to The Third Web, a podcast about next generation blockchain technology and its applications. I'm Arthur Falls. In today's episode, we look at SpankChain, an adult entertainment cryptocurrency payment system built using Ethereum. Currently, financial intermediaries in the adult entertainment industry exploit their position to impose arbitrary rules on content by refusing to serve participants who produce content they find objectionable. The effect of this is to persecute already marginalized groups like trans, men, and women as well as severing the income of both individuals and businesses in a $100 billion industry. Using a novel Ethereum based tech stack, Ameen Soleimany and Janice Griffith aim to liberate the adult industry from exploitation by evil financial intermediaries. This episode contains graphic descriptions of pornographic content. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, you're going to want to give this one a miss. Take a moment now to stop this recording. What is the problem that SpankChain is aiming to solve? 

Janice Griffith: Well, the thing about the adult industry is that we have many, many problems that need solving. SpankChain addresses a handful of them. One of the things that we deal with is discrimination from our payment processors. The paywalls that are in place have their own private ethics that they impose on websites. Let's say, your payment processor doesn't like blood, then you don't get to use blood in your content whether it's legal or not just because they don't like it and you can't find someone else to process your payments. Past that, they take a huge cut of your profits. You're not making nearly as much money off of each sale or transaction, what have you. Generally, just the lack of innovation in technology and pornography. Because typically, we're the first industry to push forward, but we're stuck when it comes to billing. 

Arthur Falls: Right. Just to make the point, when you say, "Blood," you're referring to actual menstrual blood, which is not objectionable in any way if we're talking about natural act. 

Janice Griffith: Specifically, in this case, I am talking about menstrual blood because we cannot show it in pornography as of right now although, I'm sure there could be some instance where blood would occur naturally without harming someone else as well. I just can't think of one. 

Arthur Falls: What's critical about this is that these are not imposed by a regulatory body. These are just the actual payment processors who will refuse to service a producer of this particular type of entertainment content that is featuring this content. 

Janice Griffith: Exactly. The same way that some websites don't allow rough sex, strictly because their payment processor deems it as inappropriate even though it's consensual between two agreeing adults. 

Arthur Falls: What is the effect that this has on the performers themselves? 

Janice Griffith: Well, we're not able to create content that we want to. Personally, I would love to create content where I openly have my period because I shoot porn while I have my period. I'm not going to take 25% of the year off of work. You know what I mean? The fact that we have to hide something so natural, it perpetuates the stigma that we already have surrounding women's bodies. Aside from the period thing, it's just crazy to have a filter on the content that you can create that isn't imposed by the government. 

Arthur Falls: It's madness because this is, actually, the second time where we're broaching the subject. This is exactly the problem with financial intermediaries and with centrally controlled money. This is it. This is why Bitcoin in the Libertarian Movement is so obsessed with free money. It's because if you give a central authority control over funds or I should actually rephrase that. Any authority or any force that has control over funds is a central authority and can influence, extensively, anyone who relies on the ability to exchange value. This is exactly what's happening here. I think the reason it's happening here is that people get a bit squeamish when they talk about pornography. I think it's a taboo subject for some reason and a pornography's deep culture is as kind of both the U.S. and basically, all of the westers. It's-

Janice Griffith: Whole world. Sorry to cut you off but the whole, whole world. Sex has sold. Sex will sell. Sex will never stop selling. We are a recession proof industry. 

Arthur Falls: That identifies the problem and just the complete ludicrous nature of it. What's really strange as well is that this hasn't really been broached in the public blockchain space by a project until now. 

Janice Griffith: I think that pornography could be the first real world application of blockchain technology. Realistically, because what do we buy with ether now? I've never bought something like that. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Right now, you can basically only use your ether to buy tokens. With SpankChain, you'll be able to do a lot more. 

Arthur Falls: Before we dive right into SpankChain, let's look at the market itself. Let's look at the market topology because I've just spoken with ... Well, I'm going to rerecord and interview with SingularityNET, which is, essentially, a two-sided AI component marketplace. I've recorded. Well, I'm about to publish an interview with [Jonathan Sela 00:06:32] of YouNow. That's also an online entertainment two-sided marketplace. Not related at all. They're similar because you have a network of producers and a network of consumers usually controlled by central intermediary. The pornography industry is a classic example where you have individual producers but they're beholding to large distribution services and also, large payment processing services. If we can disintermediate these two silos of control, then it can really bring all of the value that make those businesses profitable and put it into the pockets of the people on both sides of that market. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Originally, I thought SpankChain was a good idea because I was working on payment channel's consensus, and then I left. I was like "Man, this live cam seems like a great use case for payment channels." Then we started doing a little bit more research and then we found out about the embedded discrimination that's in the financial system against the adult industry. We realized that, actually, for performers and businesses in the space, the use case of the blockchain for them is being able to store their money on a system that will never close down their account. That's a blockchain. It's like inclusive and permissionless. What we are now focusing on is building the infrastructure that can allow us to migrate that economy over onto Ethereum. That's why we focused on scalability and payment channels in order to make this migration, because once we have most of the commerce of the adult entertainment industry running on SpankChain and on Ethereum, then we don't need to deal with the censorship that is imposed by the payment processors and the banks that they serve. 

Janice Griffith: I, also, am really excited about SpankChain because we're not industry adjacent. I'm a part of the adult industry. We have performer's best interest in mind. We are actively communicating with the people that we're working with. Instead of being next to the industry, we're becoming a part of it. So many people want to work alongside of adults or benefit or profit off of adult without actually stepping into it. That's where SpankChain differs because we fully embraced the ... We're called SpankChain. We fully embrace the adult branding. We're not ashamed of being in a space that we're working in. That's one of the biggest things because so many payment processors are ashamed to be associated with us or it goes against their terms of service or code of ethics. 

JP Morgan and Chase closed down adult performer's bank accounts a couple years ago. If they see PayPal accounts being used for adult transactions, they can close down your PayPal account even though you can pay for memberships on large adult sites with your PayPal account, but you can't do individual transactions because whores are too risky. We're becoming a part of the industry instead of just watching from the outside and hoping to scrape off the top. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. If you look at YouNow, I'm sure that lots of their user base is centered around adult content even though YouNow doesn't own up to it. For them, that gives them the option of, masquerading is not an adult app, which helps them get into the app store and et cetera, but for us, when we decided to call ourselves SpankChain is partly because we use that as a signal to show everyone in the adult industry that we're never going to turn our back on them. 

Arthur Falls: How big is the adult entertainment industry? 

Ameen Soleimany: $100 billion. It's huge. 

Janice Griffith: The amount of porn that's consumed by the world is literally mind-boggling. I can go to any city in the world and be recognized on the street. Truly. 

Arthur Falls: Really? 

Janice Griffith: Yes. I've been to the outskirts of Tokyo. I've been to the middle of nowhere in London. Like Costa Rica, South America, it's actually scary. Not just me alone. I've shot porn in different countries. The adult industry is huge. That's another thing that SpankChain addresses. So many people want to consume pornography but can't exactly find the most effective way to do so that fits their needs such as, they don't want it to show up on their bank statements or they don't want it to show up in the mail. With blockchain technology, it can be semi-anonymous. If you're paying with Ether, you don't have to worry about your bank account showing like Pornhub Premium subscription, monthly, in your statements.

I think with that, we would be giving more money directly to the people who are producing the content like the performers instead of the bigger name companies. More people would be able to openly consume their pornography, which would not only benefit us, but I feel like people's sexuality, in general, we could have a healthier relationship with our own sexuality if people were allowed or given the opportunity to explore it, I guess, in a way with less obstacles. If there weren't so many hoops to jump through to get to pornography and to feel comfortable and shameless about consuming it, more people would feel safe and okay, admitting that they were watching porn. 

Arthur Falls: Because the obstacles themselves attach that stigma that perpetuates the shame around what is a perfectly innocent and broadly enjoyed pastime. 

Janice Griffith: Yes. Well, the enemy of shame is to be shared. Like when you feel ashamed, the last thing you want is someone to know about it. That's the way to destroy the stigma is to just talk about it. We're talking about porn. We're participating in porn. We're watching it. We're producing it. It's the only way to end it. We just have to be honest. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Prat of our mission with SpankChain is to continue pushing this movement of sex positivity. We hope that it's more generally accepted. We think that there's a guilt and shame bubble, like a cultural bubble around watching pornography that we want to pop. 

Janice Griffith: Typically, people of color and trans or queer, generally marginalized people are the ones who suffer the most under the discrimination in the world, in general. Just as that exist, everything triples down into the sex industry as well. If there's racism in the world, there's racism in the sex industry. If there's sexism in the word, there's sexism in the sex industry. We don't live in a bubble in that sense. These payment processors unfairly target these already oppressed people like trans women have a hard time getting on camsites or clip sites because there's not a category for them. It's either straight women or gay men. A lot of sites are like, "Sorry, fuck off. We don't want your money. Find someone else to help you take money." There's so much money in this industry. People are begging to give us money. We're like, "I'm sorry, I don't know how to take it." It's a really silly problem. I think with SpankChain, we could really give all of these marginalized people a leg up and equal the playing field because it's time. 

Arthur Falls: Getting down to the financials. You said it's $100 billion a year industry. How much of that goes to payment processors? 

Ameen Soleimany: A lot of it is just the transaction. If you look at the transactional cost, normally, it's like 3%. If you look at payment processors with adult, you have something like a popular one is CCBill, which charges 10 to 15%. Probably, I would guess, $5 to $10 billion of the $100 billion if you accept that number is the range. 

Arthur Falls: What percentage of that market do you think you can capture. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. I think we have a reasonable chance at taking somewhere between 1% and 10% of that market. This is intended to be a play for domination. We win as SpankChain when the entire adult industry runs on our infrastructure and services. What we have to do is survive long enough that we make that future happen. 

Janice Griffith: Also, a large chunk of the money in adult, it's taken from performers and given to the clip sites that they host their content on. Like a very popular site,, takes, I think, 40% of each sale that you make. Performers are only getting 60% of the marketed price of a product. With SpankChain, we would typically take less fees therefore, redistributing the wealth and helping performers make what they should be making. 

Arthur Falls: From the fees alone, at 1% of $15 billion, we've got $150 million annual sales. That's your assumed initial penetration, right? 

Ameen Soleimany: I was saying what was $5 to $10 billion market size for payment processors. 

Arthur Falls: Okay. 

Ameen Soleimany: Then I said, one to five of that. If it's the upper end of that, which is 10% of $5 billion, that's $500 million. We're talking about revenue because this is a yearly, annual, revenue. Typically, if you're trying to price something, if you're talking about a company that has revenue to do the EBITDA 10X, EBITDA for growth companies or tech companies, it would depend on what our cost structure is like. If we're earning $500 million, probably a unicorn if we are doing that. 

Arthur Falls: That's just from payment processing. Do you have any ambitions to other parts of the industry? 

Ameen Soleimany: Yes. The other parts of the industry are, a lot of it is advertising revenue and a lot of it is actually content. We're going to be launching our own camsite. It'll just be called SpankChain. We'll be charging something like 5% as a fee for using our camsite. Now, this includes the payment processors, it includes the video hosting, and it includes all of the cost of using the camsite. We're trying to do at least 10 times better than the existing industry and the existing industry is status quo for cams is 50% starting. If you work at that for a while, you can get it down to 30%. As Janice said earlier, Manyvids takes 40%. ManyVids is a different type of content distribution app. It's a clip site. People upload their videos that they make and pictures and then they can- 

Janice Griffith: You can ... Oh, sorry. 

Ameen Soleimany: Go ahead. 

Janice Griffith: No, I was just going to say, and then you buy them individually ... 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. You- 

Janice Griffith: ... instead of like a subscription based model. 

Ameen Soleimany: Right. 

Janice Griffith: They do have a subscription sort of situation as well. 

Ameen Soleimany: Right. 

Arthur Falls: When you apply tax after that, so you've gone from 50% of your income or your revenue has gone from payment processors and hosting fees, I guess you would call it, 50 to 60%. Then of that, you're paying what probably 30% tax. You're getting down to a third of your actual economic value is being taken away by either intermediaries or by a tax authority. 

Janice Griffith: Yes. For camsites, girls don't get paid to just be online. They only make money off of tips. Tips are tipped in tokens. Each token, I think, is 10 cents to purchase, but when a girl receives a token, it's only 5 cents. We're literally working for nickels and they're still taking 50%. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. 

Janice Griffith: We're getting nickels thrown at us and they still are taking 50%. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. 

Janice Griffith: This is just the way that the industry has been the whole time and no one has stepped in to change it. There has been no breakthrough in innovation. Everyone has been like, "Oh, VR." Like, "VR porn," but we're not really innovating in the sense of payment processing and how we can distribute content and how we can accept payment. Because like I said, people are begging us to take their money. 

Arthur Falls: Yeah. It sounds like this is the ultimate industry for disruption. 

Janice Griffith: I would agree. 

Ameen Soleimany: That's why we're doing what we're doing right there. 

Janice Griffith: That's the idea. 

Arthur Falls: Turning now to the SpankChain white paper. 

Janice Griffith: Okay. 

Arthur Falls: The SpankChain ecosystem, can you discuss the platform layers? 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Sure. It's a model [inaudible 00:20:58]. There's a core layer, which is free, smart contracts, open source code. Smart contracts that we want to build with core layer are identity and our payment channels contracts. For identity, I'm talking about a contract where performers can register and that will store their profile information like links to their social media profiles. It's supposed to also connect to their Ethereum address so that as soon as a performer signs up, they'll be able to receive ethe, gifts and they'll be able to ... anybody will be able to use ADAPT to look them up and send the money without any intermediaries. The other things at the core layer are Vynos payment channel wallet, which will be open source and will be able to be used in the browser. 

Now, on top of this layer, we are building our own services. Then on top of that layer, there's applications. We'll build some of those and then some of those will be built by third parties, maybe, with support from us. The services will include things like our payment channel hub, video streaming, content hosting, what you see is what you get website editor, advertising networks and affiliate networks. The apps will be things like our camsite, things like the red light district, a clip site that we're building in partnership with district0X and other third-party applications of that style that are, maybe, more custom UI or built in partnership with a different company or is a white label of our camsite and intended for, maybe, fetishes or a different language and things like that. 

Arthur Falls: I've got questions about all different layers here. Starting with SpankChain core, I've just recently started here hearing talk about Miniraiden, the single hub payment channel network ... Microraiden, pardon me. Are you going to be using something like that or your own bespoke implementation?

Ameen Soleimany: It is our bespoke creation. We actually created the Machinomy payment channel library before Microraiden came out. We already integrated it into our Vynos payment channel wallet in the browser. When Microraiden came out, then once I talked to Heiko, I realized that they have this cool thing too. It would've saved everyone work had we coordinated a little bit better, but multiple implementations helps with redundancy. Neither Microraiden nor Machinomy, our payment channel library, is compatible with Raiden at the moment, anyway. We don't lose anything from not using Microraiden at the moment. I think Microraiden does ERC20 transfers as well. We are working on upgrading our library to do that too. I think it's way simpler than Raiden. I think it'll start being used much faster. You can get pretty far with unidirectional ether and token transfers in the payment channel. 

Janice Griffith: That's also one of my favorite things about SpankChain is, I was not a tech person prior to this and I can understand it. There are a lot of aspects of this world like when he was describing that, I was like, "Okay, isn't our thing simpler than that?" That's a really important part of SpankChain, in my opinion, because a lot of the people who will be using it or integrating it into their websites won't really care about the tech just that it works. The fact that it's simple and easy to wrap your head around and applicable is everything. Sorry to interject. 

Arthur Falls: No, not at all. That's ideal. The ad network. Now, you mentioned ads and we were just trying to divine the potential value of SpankChain. We didn't talk about advertising in any way. How valuable is advertising in the porn industry? 

Janice Griffith: Advertising is everything in the porn industry because we have shifted to a place where very few people actually pay for porn and sites like Pornhub and Xhamster and Xvideos run the internet. You cannot go anywhere without finding an ad for fucking hot singles near you or like a cartoon game that makes you nut in 10 seconds, what have you, depending on your internet search. I'm sure you've all seen those kinds of advertisements whether or not you're going to a pornography site or not. Pornhub is able to be free because of their advertising. They make enough money off of ads that they don't have to charge for videos. Companies like MindGeek do things where they shoot ... MindGeek owns browsers, Reality Kings, Mofos, Twistys, Babes, and Pornhub and Digital Playground. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. It's like eight out of 10 of the top tube sites. 

Janice Griffith: Yeah. They own all of the big sites. They shoot scenes specifically to get ad shots. I've shot a scene where I showed up and they were like, "Hey, we want these three key shots because we're going to cut it into an ad." It's insane. The amount of effort that gets put into the ad sales of the pornography industry in this day and age. 

Arthur Falls: Do you get compensated per impression for those ads? 

Janice Griffith: No. I would be retired on an island somewhere if I got even like a half of a royalty of the work that I've done. 

Arthur Falls: This seems really weird because my brother is an actor in the traditional acting industry. 

Janice Griffith: Are you saying that I'm not a real actress? 

Arthur Falls: No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm not saying that at all, but he did really well-off being in a bunch of ads and that sustained him for a really long time. It didn't seem to take him that much work either. 

Janice Griffith: I have more views on Pornhub than there are people who live in the United States, but I've never seen a royalty off of anything that I didn't produce myself. 

Arthur Falls: That's insane. That's really crazy that this part of the industry hasn't evolved and stepped with the rest of Hollywood and the TV production industry because yeah, that's a standard thing, certainly with advertisement. 

Janice Griffith: It's totally skewed and because we're not a part of the regular mainstream entertainment industry, we slipped through the cracks of fairness and regulatory business because no one wants to talk about pornography. Even in the law, technically, we are like OSHA, like health and safety regulations for the workplace. We don't have special safety regulations. We're technically supposed to follow the same rules as I think ... don't quote me because I'm not 100% sure here, but we're following the same rules as like doctors and like restaurant people where we can't share fluids. If a doctor spit on you, that would be really bad, but if I'm on set and I spit on my co-worker's penis, before it goes inside of me, it's a little bit different. Anyway, my point is, even in terms of regulation, everyone is too scared to talk about pornography. We can't innovate our industry because people are too scared to talk about it. We're just stuck in a circle jerk of screwing each other out of money. 

Arthur Falls: There's no PAG, like porn actor's guild? 

Janice Griffith: No. We have APAC, which is the adult performer advocacy committee, but they don't really have much power yet. We're working on it. 

Arthur Falls: It's just stuff that you really think about. When you think about pornography, it's something that, certainly, people from my generation just takes for granted and something that just materializes on the internet as a matter of cost. You just can't avoid it. It's awesome. Okay. Getting into the actual technicals of SpankChain core. Can you explain the performer registry? 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Sure. One of the problems in web systems today is fractured identity. If I'm a performer and I want to camp, for example, or sell my content on a number of different camsites or clip sites, I have to go ahead and make an account on each of them and put in my personal information and do the age verification. Also, once I do that and upload my content, a couple different sites, I have parts of my identity in different places, parts of my content in different places. It's annoying to transfer between apps and it creates an element of vendor lock in for the application provider, right? 

Janice Griffith: Also, potentially, unsafe depending on the security of whatever platform the performer is submitting their information to ... 

Ameen Soleimany: Right. 

Janice Griffith: ... and having so many places to submit their information just heightens the risk. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Every additional place that you give out sensitive personal information increases the risk that it'll get lift. With the performer registry, you register as a performer and we'll have an ENS-like system to manage performer screen names on the platform and then you'll be able to store your content for that off chain and distributed file systems like IPFS and SWARM. Also, if you want to control the sales, you'll be able to sell, encrypt that data and then only give out decryption keys when somebody wants to buy it. The idea behind the performer registry is to be able to link a bunch of applications on our platform together so that no single application can lock you in. It should make it easy for performers to pick up a new application and start camping on it or start selling their clips on a new site. It decouples the identity from the UI of whatever website you're using and source the identity data on the blockchain. 

Arthur Falls: Did you say that you are considering performing yourself? 

Janice Griffith: He was just ... he was- 

Ameen Soleimany: Only with you. 

Arthur Falls: Thanks, man. I'm sure that we're all disappointed, men and women, around the world to hear that. They'll be missing out, but thank you very much. The idea of an exclusive show is greatly appreciated.

Ameen Soleimany: You got it. Okay. 

Janice Griffith: You should see the ideas I have for some of the promotional things. He's really upset about it. 

Ameen Soleimany: I think everyone on the SpankChain team is an evil genius and I'm thrilled to be working with them around. 

Arthur Falls: Can you tell me a bit about the SpankChain camsite that you discussed? 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. With SpankChain, we have the benefit of not needing to invent entirely new classes of user interaction like prediction markets. The SpankChain camsite will be similar to camsites that already exist. 

Janice Griffith: Because there's a pretty standard model of camsite. 

Ameen Soleimany: There's a pretty standard model for how it works. There's public, live tipping shows. You can join as a viewer without having to pay anything and you watch the show. The performer, typically, does a striptease and periodically asks for additional tokens or money as a bounty in order to do increasingly interesting things. 

Janice Griffith: Let me speak here. Models, typically, get on cam and then they have goals, not bounties. Usually, they're tip goal. 

Ameen Soleimany: It's a goal. 

Janice Griffith: Some models don't even get naked. There are a lot of sites that are catered, specifically, just for people to hang out and spend time together, which is the way that most of these models make a living. They're regulars. They're friends who want to just come and spend time with them, but a regular show goes, model will do X at tip goal number one. Model will do Y at tip goal number two. They have a tip menu. If you tip X amount of tokens, they'll flash their boobs or you win a Polaroid of them or they'll send you cookies. Models do so many things now online, which is why it's more than just this sex industry. It's really catering to more people who have social skill issues or don't have a lot of friends or agoraphobia. It's a way that people are making connections online. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Some people call it like therapist who get naked. 

Janice Griffith: Yeah. We're definitely not qualified to be therapist, but I definitely know that they feel more comfortable telling me their problems about their wife with my tits half out than going to actual therapy. 

Arthur Falls: Right. That's amazing and probably be a form of pleasant experience. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. I can say it will support public tipping shows as we just described. We'll also have private metered access shows where you pay per second to watch the show. Those, typically, are $5 a minute and they run for about 10 minutes or longer depending on the audience. 

Janice Griffith: We don't plan to stay too far from the typical camsite structure. Just improving where ... little tweaks. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. All the payments will be done through our payment channel wallet. It should be seamless and a few users switch between multiple different camsites that's for their wallet. All your money will be there and it'll be as if you're using the same application. 

Janice Griffith: Which is a really big deal because there ares so many different camsites at this point. Like My Free Cams and Chatterbay, if you have an account on my [inaudible 00:35:45], you can't use that same account on Chatterbay to tip your model friends. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. The other side of the coin, I guess, for the identity and the performer registry is that if you have a singular user wallet that is interoperable with a number of sites. You also solved the identity fracture problem for users. 

Janice Griffith: I love to solve an identity fracture. 

Ameen Soleimany: You'd love [Sybel 00:36:08]. 

Arthur Falls: We've really gone over this whole thing. We haven't looked at the token model. Generally, as a rule, I'm trying not to really cover the specifics of token. Just because this is such a unique and ... It's weird to say it but viable idea. 

Janice Griffith: Isn't that a crazy concept? 

Arthur Falls: Yeah. Well, really. Can you explain the token model, Ameen? 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Sure. 

Arthur Falls: Oh, Janice. 

Janice Griffith: Yeah. No, it's probably him. 

Ameen Soleimany: I'll take this one right here. 

Janice Griffith: You're right. You're right. 

Ameen Soleimany: The token model. We basically copied those systems to open model. We added some cool things of our own. We have a two-tier token model. You have Spank and Booty. We have minted 1 billion spank tokens. You take your spank and you put it in the spank bank smart contract. That will, every month, mint a new amount of booty that will target a total booty supply of 20 times the previous months usage of booty. Now, you cannot possibly stake your spank because we've introduced a participatory verification game called, "Proof of Spank." If you would like earn booty from your spank, you need to participate in the proof of spank verification game. What that means is, what we'll do is, every 10 minutes, in order to solve the problem of age verified models swapping out of live cams. You'll have somebody who's age verified, they're caming but then suddenly they leave the camera and somebody who's under age comes on. Now, it's impossible to verify this unless you're watching all the cams all the time, but instead of doing that, we're creating an economic game. 

Every 10 minutes, we're going to pick one live streaming, public performer at random, and then we're going to generate four random numbers between one and 20. They're going to have to recite those four numbers and then pick one of them and spank themselves that many number of times. From there, the spank ... the stickers- 

Janice Griffith: Given that this performer does spanking things. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Just to be clear, spanking is very popular in live cams. 

Janice Griffith: Yes. 

Ameen Soleimany: We thought it would be fun to incorporate this as part of our verification game, which would only make it more effective. 

Janice Griffith: Just stating that it would only be consensual. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yes. 

Janice Griffith: Everything we say is implied consent. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. The stickers of spank and the spank bank would then, every 10 minutes, have to participate in a token weighted vote about whether or not the spanker, the model selected at random to do the spanking, is, in fact, who they say they are in their profile. The current performer matches their profile. If they do, then everything is great. If they don't, then the performer will have their account reviewed and potentially close down because they were under age or somebody who was under age was using their profile. 

Janice Griffith: Or not even under age, but whoever's ID was on file was not the person who is appearing on camera rather than it being an age thing, it being a verification of identity. 

Ameen Soleimany: For users, this encourages you to come to SpankChain and participate in some number of proof of spanks every month. We might not make it that you have to participate in every single proof of spank in order to get booty. We might make it that if you want to get booty for the month, you have to participate in at least one proof of spank a week to get 80%. If you do it everyday then you might get 100% some sort of curve, but we haven't released details about that yet. This is just what we're thinking about right now. 

Janice Griffith: We're figuring out how much porn we can make people watch before it's aggressive. 

Ameen Soleimany: It'll be fun too because you're watching a thing every 10 minutes it switches. You go and tip the new model, and then they're excited because it's like for them, they won the lottery. 

Janice Griffith: Oh, I'm joking. I know that people want to keep watching porn. 

Ameen Soleimany: All these corny dudes just showed up and they want to give you tips and you're just going to spank yourself. It should be fun. It should be great. We're in the porn phase of blockchain adoption. Many hedge funds and firms we're looking at. We only do invest in infrastructure and protocols. I talk to them like, "That's fine. Just make sure the first app coin you buy is important." 

Janice Griffith: The thing is that porn is something that drives so many platforms until they become successful then they delete it. Patreon, recently, I think I mentioned this, adult content was loosely allowed on Patreon. It was a loophole situation in their terms of service. Now, their terms of service explicitly banned adult content. Even though Patreon got its following and it blew up because queer performers and people of color were using that platform to host their content. Now that the platform has gotten large enough, they're like, "Okay, thanks for your help but like no. Okay, bye. We don't want you anymore." A couple of adult content performers and creators have actually sat down with the head of Patreon and spoken at length with them about it. They said that they would be happy to have another meeting with her and then they just canceled it. They were like, "Sorry, we're not interested in meeting with you further." 

It wasn't until she tweeted a screenshot of the email that they replied from their official Patreon Twitter. We're like, "We're so sorry. This is not how we intended to handle things. We'd love to meet with you again." It's interesting the way that people use the buzz and attention of pornography and adult content to gain a following and take people's money until it doesn't suit their ethics anymore. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. SpankChain will never have that problem. 

Janice Griffith: Because we're SpankChain. 

Ameen Soleimany: It's called SpankChain. 

Arthur Falls: Where can people find out more about SpankChain? How can people get involved? Before you even get to there, what's the plan moving forward? 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. We are filming this Sunday at 7:00 p.m. on the last day of our token sale. I'm hopeful that we'll complete this open sale and it'll be a success. Moving on, we'll be growing our team for SpankChain expanding our L.A. and San Francisco offices and looking to gear up to deliver our camsite and associated modules by cue on of 2018. If you want to find out more, you can go to You can follow us on Twitter. We're SpankChain and join our discord and chat with us. 

Arthur Falls: How much have you raised so far? 

Ameen Soleimany: We're a couple $100,000 short, I think. We're at about four and a half million when I started this interview and we need about five. 

Arthur Falls: I would've thought this had been ... Because we're not invested. I'm not going to say what I put down as evaluation. Great token sale mechanic by the way, the auction model, but I valued it really, really highly. 

Janice Griffith: People are scared to invest in porn. People are scared to publicly or even privately put stake in something that is adult content. It's that taboo. Even though we have every person that we've met with from the adult industry is so excited and like ready to work with us. Like Kayden Kross of did two of our promotional videos and when we explained the concept to her, she was like, "How do I use it? Can I use it now? Can we put it on my website now?" 

Arthur Falls: The explanatory video was incredible. 

Ameen Soleimany: Thanks. Yeah. They did a really good job. I had nothing to do with either of those videos. 

Janice Griffith: I casted it because I thought that Kayden would be nice and sophisticated. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. That was all the team. 

Arthur Falls: Wow. Great job. Really, that were fantastic. Cool. Well, that's cool. I was thinking that, maybe, you might not be going to complete this over, obviously. 

Ameen Soleimany: It's like when you're having a nice dinner party as a sale and then the neighbors are throwing some kind of crazy rager, which is like the most dramatic Bitcoin currency wars in history just happens to be taking place at the exact same time as our sale. No big deal. It just means that for the people who are in the no, there's a greater opportunity. 

Arthur Falls: Okay. Hey, guys. This has been fantastic. One more time, where could people go to find out more? 

Janice Griffith: We're at SpankChain on Twitter. Do we have a SpankChain Instagram, like we have one? 

Ameen Soleimany: I think so. 

Janice Griffith: @SpankChain on Instagram. I will start posting lots of things right away. You can find me, I'm the JaniceXXX on Twitter. 

Ameen Soleimany: Yeah. Come hang out in our discord. 

Janice Griffith: Yes. 

Arthur Falls: Awesome. We'll do. Hey, thanks a bunch, guys. I'll catch you later. 

Ameen Soleimany: Thanks for having us, Arthur. 

Janice Griffith: Thank you. 

Arthur Falls: Thank you for listening to The Third Web. For more, visit 

arthur falls